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There's been a fair few of suggestions now to TheLastHuzzah and me, concerning an addition of a 'Vections' category. If this is something that you'd like to voice an opinion on, then this journal is for you.

Firstly, I'll explain what 'Vections' are, and how they came to be. Vection is the adopted term to describe mixed media pieces containing both vector and raster elements. While a few of you may now be thinking "isn't that what Vexel art is?", I must remind you that no, it is not =P Vexel art is 100% raster layers, created with the Pen tool and/or selection tools, such as the Lasso. There is no mix of Vector and raster in Vexel artwork.

So, a piece of Vector arwork, finished with a couple of brushes in the background and a texture over the top, for example, is mixed media. A mix of vector and raster. A Vection.

Now, there are already Digital Mixed Media galleries where these works could - and currently should - belong. However, the suggestion for this new Vections category comes from that word exactly - "belong."

Vexel art began when artists were creating pieces that they believed were vector, but were actually created with raster media. The term 'vexel' was coined as mix between 'Vector' and 'Pixel', as a way for these artists to know that they were creating something with a name. The name gave them a place to belong - their own community. This is what people want, and what people need.

The suggestions for the Vections category come from the exact same place. The artists who are creating these pieces don't just want to be flung into 'Mixed Media'. They want belong to soemthing, to a community of artists who are doing the same thing they are. Before the vexel definition was updated on deviantART to reflect the media more closely, there was a great deal more activity within the community and within these galleries. The recent lack of activity is not due to people no longer wanting to create their artwork, not at all, it's just that what they do is no longer classified as vexel art, but its not vector either.

These people are feeling cast out, cast aside... and we don't want that. So after much discussion, TheLastHuzzah and I decided it was time to bring this forward to the wider community for YOUR thoughts.

So... how do YOU feel about the prospect of a Vections category?

Please comment with your thoughts and feedback - it would be hugely appreciated.
There's been a fair few of suggestions now to ^TheLastHuzzah and me, concerning an addition of a 'Vections' category. If this is something that you'd like to voice an opinion on, then this journal is for you.
Add a Comment:
 
:iconpetrus-emm:
Petrus-Emm Featured By Owner Jul 31, 2013
I think this needs to be done. I am a vector artist who's art has been rejected in various vector groups due to "raster" textures. It was really disappointing.
Reply
:iconvangellj:
VAngelLJ Featured By Owner Aug 1, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thanks for the input.
Reply
:iconlilyas:
Lilyas Featured By Owner Jul 9, 2013  Professional General Artist
I think you have a great idea here. I often use vector tools and vector software such as Illustrator but I hardly leave my work without styles or effects. A category like "Vection" would come in handy for me. Go ahead.
Reply
:iconvangellj:
VAngelLJ Featured By Owner Jul 9, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thank you very much for your feedback! ^^
Reply
:iconleichenengel:
Leichenengel Featured By Owner Jul 1, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
I didn't even yet come around to make proper vectors let alone vexels so I think if you make this category or not is up to you ^^ If you feel the need for it do it if not don't :D
Reply
:iconvangellj:
VAngelLJ Featured By Owner Jul 1, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
It's up to the community, really.. hence the journal :paranoid:
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:iconleichenengel:
Leichenengel Featured By Owner Jul 1, 2013  Hobbyist General Artist
Yeah - I sort of always wanted to get into this but never got around to do so
Reply
:iconfluxkore-ph:
fluxkore-ph Featured By Owner Jun 27, 2013   Digital Artist
count me in... anything for the best and for the artists and the artworks. we all want to showcase our artworks and its definitely a great idea to have (at least) a decent home for them
Reply
:iconvangellj:
VAngelLJ Featured By Owner Jun 27, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thanks for the input!
Reply
:icondeviantjc:
DeviantJC Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
It is needed, and it will definitely help a lot of stranded artists around here (like me) find a category in which sometimes the usual vector artwork looks simple and with a texture or something like that stands out more and now it doesn't fit in the regular vector category. Overall, its a great idea, its a YES from me.
Reply
:iconvangellj:
VAngelLJ Featured By Owner Jun 27, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thank you for the input! ^^
Reply
:iconfauxhead:
FauxHead Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013  Hobbyist Photographer
I have had many pieces of "Vection" art declined by vector groups because of some raster graphics added and digital art groups decline the same piece because of my use of vectors. This is deviantART. Aren't we supposed to be creative? Isn't this a place to "deviate" from the norm? Some of these groups are missing out on some pretty cool artwork just because they don't fit into a neat little folder. Every group should have a Creative Folder for kickin' digital art that doesn't fit into a specific category.
Reply
:iconvangellj:
VAngelLJ Featured By Owner Jun 27, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thanks for the input ^^
Reply
:iconssst:
ssst Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
It's sad that Mixed Media is viewed as a last resort type of category - Anyway, I have nothing against those who want a Vections category, but I've been mixing Vectors and Raster together for a while now and never felt the need to submit them to a Vections category in a vector group (let alone an actual category on DA) because once you add raster, you're stepping out of vector. It's a conscious decision as far as I know. No need to rewrite the rules.
Reply
:iconvangellj:
VAngelLJ Featured By Owner Jun 27, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thanks very much for your input here ^^
Reply
:icondasaalikz:
dasaalikz Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Three of my tiny handful of deviations are vections, which i honestly didn't know was a category that existed. So sure I support this man.
Reply
:iconvangellj:
VAngelLJ Featured By Owner Jun 27, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thanks for the input!
Reply
:iconpica-ae:
pica-ae Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013  Professional Interface Designer
Oh, one question: how would you consider a file that has only been "enhanced" in Photoshop, no photos or textures applied to it?

I mean, you make a new file and copy a smart object into Photoshop from Illustrator (thus keeping scalabilty) and then you just add some adjustment layers (which are also scalable as long as there's no raster mask on them). The file could easily be resized to any dimension without a loss of quality, since .psd files are perfectly capable of vector.

I'd think those are still 100% vector.

I wish AI had adjustment layers :lol:
Reply
:iconlilyas:
Lilyas Featured By Owner Jul 9, 2013  Professional General Artist
I springe auch immer wieder zwischen Photoshop und Illustrator hin und her, genau aus diesem Grund.
Reply
:iconpica-ae:
pica-ae Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2013  Professional Interface Designer
Es muss echt mal bald ein Programm geben, das "einfach" alles in einem ist :XD: 
Reply
:iconlilyas:
Lilyas Featured By Owner Aug 5, 2013  Professional General Artist
Oh je, dann würde mein Rechner aber zusammenkrachen. :lol:
Reply
:iconvangellj:
VAngelLJ Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yes, that would still be vector indeed. If it's scalable infinitely, its ok ;p
Reply
:iconpica-ae:
pica-ae Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013  Professional Interface Designer
Right, thought so :D
Reply
:iconpica-ae:
pica-ae Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013  Professional Interface Designer
I would prefer Mixed Media to get a boost, instead of adding a second Mixed Media category… It would only lead to A LOT of confusion to have a gallery on dA dedicated to that.

( Generally I am one who does not like art being divided by media, I would always prefer a gallery tree that is sorted by purpose. Cos in such a system it wouldn't matter at all whether it's a vector, vexel or vection. But since that is not how dA is set up, that's just a side note ;) )

It would make morse sense, to just let the artists decide where he wants to submit. A texture overlay which makes up 2% of an artwork could be submitted to vector, while vector elements drawn into a photograph of idk the Eiffel Tower where it's 50% or more should go to Mixed Media.

I understand the "need" to have original vector files to maintain scalability as one of the main factors or Vector. But you can argue that, because obviously you cannot upload a vector file to dA and have to save a .JPG or .PNG it should not matter to overlay some texture on it.

Also… it is really not hard at all to create textures in vector :B And I don't only mean livetrace on textures, but creating your own textures as patterns or scatter brushes. Of course those options do require quite something from your computer, so it's not always an option to do that in Illustrator.

I think my reply to the journal is actually only my first sentence :P
Reply
:iconvangellj:
VAngelLJ Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Well.. Your point about uploading them as a JPG/PNG I don't really agree with, because it's about how they're made - after all, oil paintings are photographed/scanned and submitted as JPGs as well, but that doesn't make them digital art or photography =P

There are vector textures available around the web, and in some programs, and they can indeed be made, so I feel that keeping the purity of the vector gallery is preferable.

But yes, a boost for the Mixed Media gallery would be great. Many see it as a black hole of some sort and are worried that their pieces won't get seen, so sorting that issue could help these artists.
Reply
:iconpica-ae:
pica-ae Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013  Professional Interface Designer
Yeah that was more sarcasm there sorry :B It's just a point I could see other people making like "yeah whatever". Honestly… I completely hate that point of view :lol: Cos it's just mindless and lazy.

It is a challenge to keep to pure vector :nod: a very satisfying one, if you succeed :XD:

Lots of people don't care for the mixed media category. Too many see it as a dump nobody cares for :noes:
Reply
:iconvangellj:
VAngelLJ Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Indeed. A lot of people see the vexel categories that way too, though :paranoid:
Reply
:iconpica-ae:
pica-ae Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013  Professional Interface Designer
That is unfortunately true. I think the name is just so easily confusing, as the name is made up from vector and pixel, but the actual works are not just vector and then pixels on top :roll:

However… isn't it a dying breed anyway? I think most people are like "oh wait, I can do this in vector?" as soon as they figure out what they're doing. Myself I just got into it cos I saw people and groups do it when I joined dA and thought it was cool… later turned out all my vexel works were actually still vectors, just done in Photoshop >_> Which is the second misconception about vexels… that they are "vectors made in photoshop" :stare:
Reply
:iconmaybeitslupus:
maybeitslupus Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I hate to hear that vexel art (or any art) is dying. The fact that probably many people think so means that there is no appreciation given to that category of art to begin with. Why? Because "Oh wait, I can do this in vector?"

It seems to me that the default opinion in the vector/vexel community is that vector is better. Period. Even in the tutorials and articles on the differences between the two, there are underlying tones that question why an artist would choose vexel over vector.
Reply
:iconpica-ae:
pica-ae Featured By Owner Jun 27, 2013  Professional Interface Designer
I am sorry if that came over as arrogant or hurtful :) I want to apologize for that :hug:

It's just that from my personal experience, when I found out what vexel actually was and that what I thought had been vexels I created, were simply Photoshop vectors. So that's when I thought "why would someone do this?" meaning: use the pentool to create shapes but instead of using that path as a mask, rasterize it instead and make it uneditable. If you make vexels that way, you are basically doing vector layers and rastering them.
The other way, using mouse or tabled pen to draw selections and then filling those selections, seems to be more "real" vexel. Then again I have actually seen people submit works to drawings that were created with that technique and they didn't even know it was vexel. Probably cos they don't know what vexels are (or think they are something else) and/or they just don't even realize that they are doing something others took the time to give a name.

"Better" is a relative word. So, if you work for clients, vector "would be better" because of its scalability. Which has nothing to do with the look or quality of the art. I believe those people also think Vector is superior to Digital Drawing/Painting. Mainly in regards to scalability and editability. Which is a factor you cannot deny.
When it comes to quality of artwork, there is no better technique then any other, because technique does not matter. Concept and composition come way before technique. Or should at least. And those two can be achieved in any form, vector, vexel, drawing etc. It simply should not matter what technique you use.
Reply
:iconmaybeitslupus:
maybeitslupus Featured By Owner Jun 27, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I didn't think your comment was arrogant, I just thought it was very truthful. So truthful, that I made an example out of it haha.
Reply
:iconvangellj:
VAngelLJ Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Yes. To all of it.
Reply
:iconjussta:
jussta Featured By Owner Jun 25, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
Personally if I mix vector and vexel then I don't mind putting it into mixed media category, after all I kind of agree to this the first moment I start the work. But I understand why people don't like mixed media gallery as in my opinion it's quite... messy. Hope people won't get it the wrong way but to me it's a bit like a 'litter bin', everything that doesn't belong goes right there and it's hard to find certain type of art there, for example 'vections' as it vanishes among other works.
But... I'm not sure if creating a new gallery strictly for vections is a good idea. A lot of people are still confused about vexels and adding something new to the basket wouldn't really help much imho. Let's be honest, vexel and vector galleries are both full of miscats so before we create (*if) a new category we should educate folks more about both of those mediums.
Reply
:iconmaybeitslupus:
maybeitslupus Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
We mustn't also forget that all of these things we're proposing for vections, as they apply to vector, also apply to vexel. Effects that normally are not par for the vexel-course, such as textures and blur effects, would make that it's own version of a vection. Although, (despite my personal opinion on whether a new vection category should even exist) I would just call those vections as well.

SO MANY VARIABLES WHYYYY

But I certainly agree that there needs to be some extensive learning about vector vs. vexel. This can be covered in another topic, but we need other ways to drive that education besides bullet pointed lists.
Reply
:iconvangellj:
VAngelLJ Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Education is key indeed, but a lot, if not all, of the information regarding these two media already exists at least once on deviantART somewhere, so further educate would involve getting this information wider-spread. There's some people out there who still believe that 'vector' is another term for 'trace'! But yes, thanks for the input!
Reply
:icondomism:
DomiSM Featured By Owner Jun 25, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
I've read all of the comments here, and I agree with some that say this would be a very confusing and unnecessary step.  Vections are what they are...Mixed Media.  I am passionate about Vectors, and I take the few extra minutes that it takes to make a vector texture, even if using Live Trace on them, just to keep my Vectors as Vectors.  If I add a raster element such as a texture to my work, I am fully aware that it is no longer Vector,  but Mixed Media.  

I can understand that some may feel ostracized from the Vector community for using raster elements, but that isn't the case.  A lot of the Vector/Vexel groups here on dA will allow Vections, but with the understanding that MOST of the work needs to be Vector, with very minimal raster elements. If that simple guideline is followed, no one is pushed away.  It's only when we get a piece that has a few Vector lines and the rest is covered with textures, photos and paint work that we say, 'No, sorry, your work is better suited to a Digital Painting Group.'  

If there were to be a Vections category added, where does it stop?  Will all Mixed Media artists then want their own categories added for each of their mixed works?  What sort of rules would 'Vections' have?  When does a piece stop being a Vection and become a digital painting/digital drawing/something totally unrelated to Vector? Who would police all the miscats that this new category is bound to attract?

I say leave things as they are...it works fine.  As you are doing your artwork, most are completely aware that if you mix one or more mediums, it's Mixed Media.  If you want to keep your work to one medium, then take the extra steps to make it so :) 
Reply
:iconvangellj:
VAngelLJ Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thanks for your input, Domi ^^
Reply
:icondomism:
DomiSM Featured By Owner Jun 27, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
:)
Reply
:iconflashparade:
flashparade Featured By Owner Jun 25, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
since most of my art would fall in the category of "Vection" I would love to see this.
Reply
:iconvangellj:
VAngelLJ Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Thanks for the feedback ^^
Reply
:iconegypturnash:
egypturnash Featured By Owner Jun 25, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
"Vection" is a terrible name IMHO. What's it even a portmanteau of?

I'd really just rather change the rules for "vector": if it was done in a vector package, it's vector art. Even if it uses some bitmap filters, even if it throws in a texture or two. Is this piece going to be categorized as a "vection" now just because I used some blur and a mezzotint? Is this one a "vection" now because I used a bitmap texture as a layer mask to create a chalk effect? I could send you nothing but the .AI file, and you could get the exact same image out of it.

The current restrictions for "vector" art on DA forbid the use of an important set of tools in modern vector art packages. It's as if the "animation" category was only open to work done in real media.

I've been using Illustrator as my main medium since 2000. I am proud of how thoroughly I have mastered it. Part of this mastery includes doing pieces that make you stop and wonder if it's really vector art. And I'll keep on recategorizing pieces as "vector" if the admins start changing them to "vection". Or "digital art", for that matter.
Reply
:iconvangellj:
VAngelLJ Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Well, we can't change the definition of 'vector' because vector just is what it is. Vector art should be 100% scaleable infinitely - if the end product is not infinitely scaleable without loss of quality, then it is not vector artwork. So, to answer your question, using a bitmap/raster texture over the top does mean it is no longer vector, yes, as the texture would not scale along with the rest. If you were to use a vector texture, however, as I know a few programs include these, then that would be perfectly acceptable. And for the record, all the 'live effects' in Illustrator are accepted as they scale along with the rest of the piece, it's just raster effects that are not.

What is this important set of tools in modern vector packages to which you refer? :)
Reply
:iconegypturnash:
egypturnash Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
Huh, well that's a step in the right direction then. Last I knew DA was claiming that any use of the live bitmap effects meant it was "not vector". Maybe one of these days it'll get over the "OMG IT HAS TO SCALE TO BE VECTOR!" thing too. I can hope.

I guess I don't care how stupid "vection" sounds to me now that I don't need to worry that my work will get recategorized as that just for using a couple of blurs or something. It still makes my ears wince, though.
Reply
:iconvangellj:
VAngelLJ Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
Well, I didn't make up the term, but it's accepted around dA. What would you call it?
Reply
:iconegypturnash:
egypturnash Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
I've never seen the term before this news post.

And see above. I'd just call it "vector".
Reply
:iconchewedkandi:
ChewedKandi Featured By Owner Jun 25, 2013  Professional Digital Artist
Suggestion:

Create a group specifically for vections and then go out into the community and seek as many vections as possible.

After a month or so, find out how far apart in time/days these submissions are. If more than a handful are being submitted on a daily basis - there is an active community/need for the gallery. If not, it would forever be a gallery doomed to collect tumbleweed and miscats :)
Reply
:iconvangellj:
VAngelLJ Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
That would likely be the next step if it seemed like the category was in favour, but so far it seems more about being 'pushed away' from the existing categories is the issue, rather than the need for a new one.
Reply
:iconmaybeitslupus:
maybeitslupus Featured By Owner Jun 25, 2013  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I would say that I dislike the idea of a Vection category merely on the principle that it's segregating an already small community of artists. Vector and Vexel artwork uses painstaking techniques that take hours to complete, and to further segregate this community based on small amounts of blurring, smoothing, or other such additions belittles the effort of the artist. They've already gone to great lengths to CONFORM to their category, and any attempt to separate them is insulting.

I'll use a personal example.
I uploaded a piece of artwork which featured photo-textures. That, of course, is "not allowed" in all vector/vexel artwork and naturally my art "did not qualify" as "actual vector/vexel" art. Not only that, I was asked to remove the textures if I wanted my art featured in a group's gallery. So not only was my work (which was several months worth of pure vexel art and two seconds of not-vexel) not good enough to be called what it essentially was, but I had to change it in order to earn my place in the community.

I really dislike the idea of a Vection category for that example. There are other vector and vexel artists who work hard on their art and start in this culture with a sense of OBLIGATION to conform. Otherwise they're ostracized. The more the community attempts to define "true" vector/vexel artwork the more elitist it will become. Honestly, this community is full of welcoming and warm-hearted people, so this idea of further segregation is surprising to me. Long story short, my point is that what people call "vections" should continue to be categorized as either vector or vexel and should not be exorcised.

Think about this as well: An artist paints a portrait using watercolors, and uses a white gel pen for highlights. Would you not call that a painting?
Reply
:iconplumbunnies:
plumbunnies Featured By Owner Jun 27, 2013  Student General Artist
Meh, you probably heard all of this already.

This issue is not really the case of Vection in particular because you would still have the same problem putting the art in Vector or Digital Mixed Media. At the same time, it sounds like Vection techniques is actually more popular than Vexel. Sure, Vection artists maybe just slightly enhancing things but at the same time, the category would also fit artists that uses both digital painting/vexel heavily alongside Vector too. At the moment, all of the artists are going into the grabbag category of Digital Mixed Media...so these people are actually going into a category that are actually considered a 'completely different category' than the Vector/Vexel category. The Vection Category will move these artists back into the Vector/Vexel area. The Vection artists actually feel more at home.

I can see why an enhancement would make sense to still constitute them as a Vector but at the same time, the small element just ruined the main point of Vector art...even if you never intended to use the Vector art that way in the first place.

However, what bothered me was this: To conform to a gallery is to change your style of art for other people to 'accept' it. But then again, why should you change your style of art for other people? Having the Vection category would allow you to sit in the Vector/Vexel/Vection categories without changing your work, no? That art piece wouldn't have to move in the grabbag of the Digital Mixed Media category.
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